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shadowmane
Starting Member
USA
7 Posts |
 Posted - 09/06/2007 : 17:57:42
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| Has anyone been keeping up with what Turkey is trying to do to the Ecumencial Patriarch? They are trying to say that he is not entitled to a title his office has had for over a milennium. |
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Aristokles
Average Member
USA
931 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2007 : 19:39:27
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| Typical Turkish persecution of the Church. |
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Seraphim
Junior Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 02:35:12
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Even though I personally find the Patriarch of Constantinople's recent interactions with the Pope to be quite disturbing... I understand that such Turkish persecution is more than likely the Patriarch's main reasoning for trying to use Rome as a "contact" with the "outside"/western world.
While I totally agree than ANY compromise of the True Faith for ANY reason is ludicrous, on some level it IS understandable why the Patriarch of Constantinople would "sink" to the level of ecumenism that he is presently portraying.
God grant that more light be shed in the situation...
ALL of Orthodoxy seems to be presently disturbed to some degree about this situation. |
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Seraphim
Junior Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 02:39:27
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| On a side note, I am currently in the process of writing a letter to my bishop asking about the "point of view" of the OTHER Orthodox Patriarchs on the recent interactions of the Patriarch of Constantinople and the Pope. As soon as I have some feedback, I will indeed share it with the forum. |
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Aristokles
Average Member
USA
931 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 08:04:11
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| I believe the monks on the Holy Mountain have already given him an earload... |
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Seraphim
Junior Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 12:08:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Aristokles
I believe the monks on the Holy Mountain have already given him an earload...
Most definitely. Actually, the statements issued by Mt. Athos were more than enough for me personally. My further questioning with my bishop is to try and get access to actual statements made by other Patriarchs and bishops... for most ecumenists immediately dismiss Mt. Athos because they are "just" monks. |
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Lover of Monasticism
Average Member
USA
919 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 12:44:21
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And monasticism is just the core of Orthodoxy.  |
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Darinka
Junior Member
131 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2007 : 14:15:13
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Seraphim,
I did ask my Vladika about this a couple of months ago. He did not condemn the EC or the Roman Pope, but stressed that we must approach everyone, whether or not they are outside the Church, with love. He acknowledged the concerns of 'ecumenism', but he thought a somewhat 'united' Christian front in the face of the growing threat of Islam was very important. |
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Seraphim
Junior Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2007 : 00:29:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Lover of Monasticism
And monasticism is just the core of Orthodoxy.
How did I know you would comment on that line? |
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Seraphim
Junior Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2007 : 00:51:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Darinka
He acknowledged the concerns of 'ecumenism', but he thought a somewhat 'united' Christian front in the face of the growing threat of Islam was very important.
That makes sense on a certain level, but at Vatican II Rome made declarations about Islam's view of God being borderline legit. It would almost seem that RC is more of a threat to Orthodoxy because Islam isn't going around claiming to be the True Christian Church. And really, I believe religious relativism is eons more of a threat than Islam.
My main concern about the Ecumenical Patriarch's interaction with the Pope is:
both Roman Catholics and Protestants (and the world as a whole) are now convinced more than ever that there is no real difference between Roman Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
First of all, this leads RCs to affirm their pro-Papist mentality... making it less likely they will ever realize and admit the errors of Rome and its Papal Monarchy.
Second, this leads Protestants who are turned off to RC for legit reasons to be simultaneously turned off to Orthodoxy... making it less likely they will ever realize and admit the errors of Protestantism.
Yes, we need to have a united Christian front... but the key word is Christian, which is to say:
True and free of error and falsehood.
May God continue to bless and preserve His True Church. |
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Lover of Monasticism
Average Member
USA
919 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2007 : 13:37:15
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| Yeah, when I went to Catholic school from fifth through ninth grade, they would have the kids read the morning readings and prayers over the PA system. One day there was something about Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. I remember the last line of the reading being, "These three religions are different in many ways; but the important thing to remember is that we all worship the same God..." I thought to myself, "This is a joke, right?" |
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shadowmane
Starting Member
USA
7 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2007 : 16:58:43
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quote:
Second, this leads Protestants who are turned off to RC for legit reasons to be simultaneously turned off to Orthodoxy... making it less likely they will ever realize and admit the errors of Protestantism.
Actually, if you're like me (raised protestant and now in the process of studying Orthodoxy with the intent of converting) and have researched the issue out, you would know that Rome and the East are very different. To the layman who don't really care, yeah, it will appear that Rome and Constantinople are two sides of the same coin. But to someone who will search out the truth of the matter, it becomes very clear, very early on in the research, that the two are light years away from one another. |
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Seraphim
Junior Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 09/09/2007 : 01:06:25
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quote:
Originally posted by shadowmane
To the layman who don't really care, yeah, it will appear that Rome and Constantinople are two sides of the same coin. But to someone who will search out the truth of the matter, it becomes very clear, very early on in the research, that the two are light years away from one another.
You speak truly... I wish more people would actually take the time to study Church history. It just goes to show: if you seek you will find.
By the way, shadowmane, welcome to the forum! 
So good to see you are allowing God to lead you to His Orthodox Church. I also was Protestant before I came to Orthodoxy, so I can very much relate to your situation.
May God bless you |
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Darinka
Junior Member
131 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 12:48:41
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Seraphim,
I was going to respond along the same lines as shadowmane, i.e., "He who has ears, let him hear!"
I do not think Vladika was giving a pass to ecumenism; we did not go into this in great depth and detail. Most Orthodox jurisdictions today are involved in some sort of 'dialogue' with the RC church; this is not to say they all endorse ecumenism. But, it is easier to receive someone with open arms, than it is with a barred door .
I have no doubt the Church will prevail against any heresy or attempt to harm her via ecumenism - didn't Christ promise the same? |
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Seraphim
Junior Member
USA
402 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2007 : 23:14:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Darinka
I have no doubt the Church will prevail against any heresy or attempt to harm her via ecumenism - didn't Christ promise the same?
This is very true. Thank you for helping to strengthen my faith in God's providence. |
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ICXCNIKA
Starting Member
27 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2010 : 22:40:19
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| This title was also condemned by St Greory Dialogos, Orthodox Bishop of Rome. He chastised St John the Faster, Patriarch of Constantinople. St john never used the title again in his lifetime. I also think it is interesting because it was the Emporer that pushing for this title and the question is if one Political leader can push for it can't another try to rescind it. Also, most Orthodox especially in the slavic churches only use it and recognize it as a historical title meaning that they in no way attribute any special powers to the patriarch other than being able to call churches together and to preside in love at a gathering. He cannot interfere in the affairs of other churches nor can he alone grant autocephaly contrary to his own claims. |
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Ecumenical Patriarch
