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confusedcatholic1
Starting Member
10 Posts |
 Posted - 02/05/2010 : 21:55:44
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Hello,
I am posting for the first time on the forum and just wanted to say hi!
I am speaking as a Catholic throughout this post so please bear with me. My question is: I am a fairly new Roman Catholic (4 years but very knowledgeable or so I thought) and over a period of the last year or so I have really been struggling with the things I see and have seen going on. I'm sure you may have an idea what I'm talking about. I know that Apostolic Succession is the key to the Church so that's not a question. To make a long story short, I have reason to doubt that the Sacraments the Roman Church gives are valid anymore because, among many things, they have fallen away from the Faith. The Roman Church teaches that if the validity of sacraments are in doubt, then you must go where there is no doubt. I do have plenty of reason to believe (according to Roman Canon law) that the Pope is a heretic as are his followers such as bishops, priests, etc. due to the falling away from the One True Faith. The things that went on after Vatican 2 have destroyed the Roman Church and it's structure and hierarchy. The papacy has caused LOTS of trouble over the years and but I'm not sure yet if that makes the papacy (as we Catholics see it to mean) a bad thing, possibly just sins of a man. I'm not here to discuss that though. What's interesting is that this whole theory that myself and numerous others hold would not necessarily be wrong (I don't think so anyway) according to the Orthodox beliefs about the Roman Church and what has gone on throughout the centuries, but I don't want to speak for you all. Please let me know your beliefs about this.
Anyway, my situation is an odd one at best. I had decided to go to an independent chapel to make sure my children and I were able to receive valid Sacraments. But when I started reading about the things that the Orthodox Church believes and started reading the history of the split, I started questioning what exactly was going on and had been going on for centuries. I don't have to explain all that because you all already know, you're Orthodox! 
Anyway, I just read an article: http://www.orthodoxforum.com/register.asp?actkey=xd4w71142h372q3hgh1wf69z335pe57j and it's very interesting and making me think. I was wondering what any of you thought about my situation and if you had any advice. I am SO confused. Please pray for me. I have to make an important decision to make so I need all the help I can get. Thanks and God bless. |
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macacic
Moderator
USA
1967 Posts |
Posted - 02/05/2010 : 22:06:07
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First, welcome to the forum!
I must apologize for giving you a reference instead of answering your question directly, but the author here addresses your issues (I believe) and he does a far better job of it that I ever could.
Here it is: http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/twopaths.aspx |
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confusedcatholic1
Starting Member
10 Posts |
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confusedcatholic1
Starting Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2010 : 12:54:46
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| From reading around a little bit on the site, one of the things I have read is that some people think that some of the Orthodox Church might submit to the Roman Bishop. If you have read some of my earlier post, you might understand why this might bother me. Is this really a possibility? |
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grengliman
Senior Member
USA
1053 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2010 : 16:01:48
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Hello,
I don't believe there is any danger of the Orthodox Church altering its ecclesiastical structure. Roman claims of Papal Primacy have always been rejected. They just don't match up with apostolic teaching.
I couldn't possibly say how long it would take, or if it was even possible, for the see of Rome to regain its status as "first among equals," once it had been restored to the Church of Jesus Christ. |
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confusedcatholic1
Starting Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/06/2010 : 16:45:33
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| One more question: How do you (EO) explain Christ giving Peter the keys to the kingdom? I apologize in advance if it is already been a topic on here. |
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parascheva1014
Moderator
USA
1273 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2010 : 00:44:00
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| Read the book Popes and Patriachs. It answers that rather extensive question pretty well. |
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macacic
Moderator
USA
1967 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2010 : 09:09:34
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From my perspective, I note that Christ did not give Peter the keys to the kingdom; He said that 'I will give you the keys...', clearly indicating future tense.
Christ then describes what the 'keys' do when He mentions that Peter will then be able to bind and loose in Heaven and on Earth.
But when Christ delivers the Gift of the Holy Spirit to the Apostles, He tells them that they may bind and loose in Heaven and on Earth.
He gave this to all of the Apostles equally and at the same time.
So when Christ speaks of giving the keys, He clearly was referring to all of the Apostles equally. |
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alexey
Junior Member
Russia
104 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2010 : 10:55:59
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quote:
Originally posted by confusedcatholic1
From reading around a little bit on the site, one of the things I have read is that some people think that some of the Orthodox Church might submit to the Roman Bishop. If you have read some of my earlier post, you might understand why this might bother me. Is this really a possibility?
Yes, it is more then just likely to be for any of the Churches. Where weakens Orthodoxy there come Roman Catholics (Uniate proselytism) and various sects of any kinds. "For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together" (Mat 24:28). Orthodoxy is a religion of Saints rather then a religion of experts on dogmatic theology. The lesser are Saints number, the weaker is the Church itself. "Help, Lord, for the godly man ceases to be, For the faithful disappear from among the sons of men." - St. David says. Why did the Church of Rome degrade so much about one thousand years ago? Indeed, the true godly man ceases to be there. And undoubtedly this unfortunate process goes on up to now among contemporary Orthodox Churches. Yes, thats true.
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confusedcatholic1
Starting Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/07/2010 : 22:37:53
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Thanks for all the replies! You all have helped me more than you know! I ordered the Popes and Patriarchs book today so hopefully it will help me.
I have another question: I was baptized in a Baptist church. If I do convert, will I have to be baptized? The Catholic church took that baptism but after speaking to some Traditionalist Catholics they said that before Vatican 2 that I would have had to be baptized properly. I read in the Council of Nicea that they baptized people that had already been "baptized" by heretics because it really wasn't a baptism to begin with. I am wondering if I will need to be baptized. I honestly would rather be baptized to make sure I'm safe. Any thoughts? |
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Aristokles
Average Member
USA
931 Posts |
Posted - 02/08/2010 : 23:32:12
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| That is a question for your priest who will follow direction from his bishop who decides this. |
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confusedcatholic1
Starting Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2010 : 09:07:38
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Thanks Aristokles! That has really been bothering me.
That brings up another point.... One of the reasons I started realizing things were wrong with Catholic Church was due to liberalism. Are there problems like that in the Orthodox Church? I'm sure there is to some point but hopefully not with the clergy. If I do convert, is that something I have to look out for? I don't want to get in a parish and find out it's very liberal. |
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parascheva1014
Moderator
USA
1273 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2010 : 12:18:44
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| I wouldn't worry about that too much as any liberal Orthodox parish will still be conservative by anyone else's standards. More likely you would want to make sure that whatever parish you are in has not ethnocentrized the faith. Meaning, they are concerned about prayer and fasting more than the annual festival etc. Look for a convert parish if there is one local to you. |
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grengliman
Senior Member
USA
1053 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2010 : 16:31:17
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I think you will find Orthodox Christians are:
- Pro Life
- Pro Family
- Focus on theirs and their families salvation rather than trying to "change" the world by making a spectacle out of themselves and being over vociferous concerning "morality" and other such matters.
You will find, in America, Republican, Democrat and Independent Orthodox Christians. The Church is not a political entity, nor should it ever be used as a political platform.
Don't necessarily count out a Greek, Russian or Arab parish. There are many wonderful "ethnic" parishes with a very longstanding and rich community and can be very welcoming.
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parascheva1014
Moderator
USA
1273 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2010 : 18:21:19
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| Yes of course do not count out an ethnic parish... I only meant to say that any parish should be focused on prayer. There are some occassionally that are not. |
Edited by - parascheva1014 on 02/10/2010 18:21:46 |
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confusedcatholic1
Starting Member
10 Posts |
Posted - 02/10/2010 : 19:02:46
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quote:
Originally posted by parascheva1014
Look for a convert parish if there is one local to you.
Sorry  What's a convert parish?
Also, what is the difference in the Orthodox Church of America, the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America and the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America? I know some are autocephalous and some are autonomous. I see some that say self-governing. What does all that mean and what does it mean to me? I don't want to go somewhere that is part of some weird group or something. The three I listed above (OCA, AOCA and GOA) are very close by. I know you all have your opinions but where should I go to talk to a priest? Thanks so much for the help!!! |
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New to the forum; Questions
