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Pensees
Junior Member

USA
379 Posts

Posted - 04/01/2007 :  23:55:49  Show Profile  Visit Pensees's Homepage  Send Pensees an AOL message  Click to see Pensees's MSN Messenger address  Send Pensees a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
All Orthodox Christians should agree that we are created in the image of God, have fallen, and are in need of redemption in Christ. Whatever petty disagreements we have on this matter are over such trivial details as the timescale and method of God's creative work. This is Holy Week, we should dedicate our time to prayer, fasting, and meditating on the passion and resurrection of Christ. Whether we are formed from clay like a ginger bread man, or share a common ancestor with chimps, we are nothing and live for nothing without Jesus Christ.

By the way: remember the contemporary theories of Darwin and others concerning the descent of man from monkeys. Without engaging in any theories, Christ explicitly declares that in man, in addition to an animal world, there is also a spiritual world. And what of it? What difference does it make where man is descended from..., God still breathed the breath of life into him. -
Fyodor Doestoyevski

Peace.

Edited by - macacic on 04/02/2007 08:29:06

Pensees
Junior Member

USA
379 Posts

Posted - 04/02/2007 :  01:51:03  Show Profile  Visit Pensees's Homepage  Send Pensees an AOL message  Click to see Pensees's MSN Messenger address  Send Pensees a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I leave you with some words of Saint Augustine...

Often a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens,
and the other parts of the world, about the motions and orbits of
the stars and even their sizes and distances,... and this knowledge
he holds with certainty from reason and experience. It is thus
offensive and disgraceful for an unbeliever to hear a Christian talk
nonsense about such things, claiming that what he is saying is based
in Scripture. We should do all that we can to avoid such an
embarrassing situation, lest the unbeliever see only ignorance in
the Christian and laugh to scorn.


One could argue that Saint Augustine, not Charles Darwin, discovered the theory of evolution:

quote:

In the beginning, according to Augustine, God called into being all created substances and all creaturely forms. At this beginning all created forms existed both in the mind of God and in the formable substances of the created world. But in the formable substances the creaturely forms existed, not actually, but potentially. Although the creaturely forms were not initially expressed in visible, material beings, these forms were there potentially in the capacities for actualization, called by Augustine "casual reasons" or "seed principles" with which the creator had originally endowed the created substances. Augustine says "In the seed there was invisibly present all that would develop in time to a tree. And in this same way we must picture the world, when God made all things together, as having had all things which were made in it and with it when day was made." Augustine envisioned each unique "kind" of creature to have been individually created in the Creator's initial act of creation and independently actualized in time as the casual reasons functioned to give material form to the conceptual forms created at the beginning.
http://students.ou.edu/G/Rachael.J.Goldner-1/Episode%201.html



Peace.

Edited by - Pensees on 04/02/2007 04:48:58
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George
Junior Member

USA
446 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2007 :  15:34:50  Show Profile  Visit George's Homepage  Reply with Quote
Christ is Risen!

Dear Pensees,

I very strongly agree with Blessed Augustine, but it is still fair to say that Ch.R. Darwin gets the deserved credit as the founder of the scientific theory of biological evolution. Of course Darwin was not the first to postulate that life evolves - that thought can be found in Thales of Miletes, 5th century B.C. Very many naturalists before Darwin postulated that life evolves. Yet, he was the first to postulate that the mechanism of diversification of the various forms of life is the so-called "undefined variability" (or, as we would say today, mutations in DNA) and natural selection. In science, theory is a broad conceptual framework that attemts to explain natural phenomena - not just a statement that something happens. Darwin started to set up such a framework in biology, and that's his great achievement.

Have a blessed Pascha,

George

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Pensees
Junior Member

USA
379 Posts

Posted - 04/16/2007 :  02:56:20  Show Profile  Visit Pensees's Homepage  Send Pensees an AOL message  Click to see Pensees's MSN Messenger address  Send Pensees a Yahoo! Message  Reply with Quote
I believe that it's important that we not be too dogmatic in matters of prehistory. Whatever position we have on the question of origins, we should admit the possibility that we're wrong. What matters is that we are created in the image of God, have fallen, and are in need of redemption. Beyond that, it's all a mystery to me. God can create however He may wish.

Peace.
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Frampton
Starting Member

USA
7 Posts

Posted - 05/26/2012 :  14:07:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Its important to remember that if you have fundamental differences between the cannon and personal belief then you are not a orthodox Christian. If you decent from the churches official position then you cant be counted as being associated with them. I am not saying just read creation and take everything word for word because I don't understand many things either but that is why the church fathers have left us so much material on the subjects written with divine wisdom and insight on matters such as this. Evolution is also the platform for atheism so it important not to become mixed with conflicting ideology.
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chrevbel
New Member

USA
66 Posts

Posted - 06/18/2012 :  17:35:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Frampton

Evolution is also the platform for atheism so it important not to become mixed with conflicting ideology.


So atheism didn't exist until the theory of evolution came along?

Edited by - chrevbel on 06/18/2012 17:36:02
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Alex
Starting Member

Russia
2 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2012 :  19:10:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hello everyone - may I ask a question - we know that before the Fall Adam was able to see God; after the Fall, God became well hidden from people's physical eyes in order to judge the free disposition of the heart.

Now our science looks back in time and does not see God in the past, it sees Evolution and Big Bang instead. So should not we conclude that "godless" Evolution seen by our science is absolutely necessary for God's purpose of hiding Himself in order to maintain people's freedom of thinking ?

In other words, why on earth God is supposed unable to deceive the vain curiosity of our science, having all good reason to deceive it ?

Edited by - Alex on 09/13/2012 19:46:25
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macacic
Administrator

USA
2430 Posts

Posted - 09/13/2012 :  21:31:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Our God is not a god of deception.

He IS Truth.
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Alex
Starting Member

Russia
2 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2012 :  02:04:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
well, read Ezekiel 14:9,

... I the LORD have deceived that prophet ...

- and read Jeremiah 4:10 and 20:7 and about "stumbling" and so on -
- although of course deception comes because of wrong disposition of the heart - Adam's or a prophet's or a pharisee's or a scientist's.

Edited by - Alex on 09/14/2012 02:35:41
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macacic
Administrator

USA
2430 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2012 :  10:02:03  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I'm certainly not getting the Ezekiel reference:
quote:
6 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Repent, turn away from your idols, and turn your faces away from all your abominations. 7 For anyone of the house of Israel, or of the strangers who dwell in Israel, who separates himself from Me and sets up his idols in his heart and puts before him what causes him to stumble into iniquity, then comes to a prophet to inquire of him concerning Me, I the Lord will answer him by Myself. 8 I will set My face against that man and make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of My people. Then you shall know that I am the Lord.

9 “And if the prophet is induced to speak anything, I the Lord have induced that prophet, and I will stretch out My hand against him and destroy him from among My people Israel.


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asorthodox
Junior Member

USA
381 Posts

Posted - 09/14/2012 :  11:10:38  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
God revealed Himself in fulness in His coming in the flesh--God the Son, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To see Christ is to see God, He declared; to know Christ is to know God; to live in Christ is to live in God for He is God.

Fr. William
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