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Aristokles
Average Member
USA
931 Posts |
 Posted - 03/08/2010 : 15:35:46
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quote:
Originally posted by macacic
Sometimes I wish I could toss a bucket of cold water right across the Internet.
Indeed. This is the type of thread which caused me to quit all other forums. Tisk, tisk...The irony of calling this topic "Orthodox Unity" is too much. |
Edited by - Aristokles on 03/08/2010 15:36:32 |
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parascheva1014
Moderator
USA
1273 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 19:06:34
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| Sorry guys... I just wanted to see where people stood on this. Honestly I didn't expect some of these responses. |
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grengliman
Senior Member
USA
1053 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 19:29:10
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What I find the most troubling is the negative responses concerning the EP presented in this and other recent threads on this forum website.
Critical analysis of any Patriarchates actions is expected, but the tone by some here, setting themselves so vehemently against an ancient see of the Orthodox Church, is very discouraging. It shows forth a severe lack of unity among the community of believers.
I sincerely hope this is a phenomenon peculiar to this website. I know many Russian Orthodox who love the EP, worship and commune in Greek Churches and do not appear to have a negative view of the EP . |
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parascheva1014
Moderator
USA
1273 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 19:35:48
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| I don't think this level of negativity against the EP is very mainstream. In fact I only ever see it on the Internet. No one I know personally has these views. At least not as they have expressed them to me. I also find it a bit troubling. There is a tendancy by some to relate to hierarchs in a similar fashion as we might relate to political leaders and this just ought not be. |
Edited by - parascheva1014 on 03/08/2010 19:37:28 |
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grengliman
Senior Member
USA
1053 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 19:44:24
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quote:
Originally posted by parascheva1014
There is a tendancy by some to relate to hierarchs in a similar fashion as we might relate to political leaders and this just ought not be.
I never looked at it that way, but good point and I agree--ought not be! |
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Yiorgos75
Junior Member
Australia
461 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 21:16:38
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quote:
Originally posted by grengliman
What I find the most troubling is the negative responses concerning the EP presented in this and other recent threads on this forum website.
Critical analysis of any Patriarchates actions is expected, but the tone by some here, setting themselves so vehemently against an ancient see of the Orthodox Church, is very discouraging. It shows forth a severe lack of unity among the community of believers.
I sincerely hope this is a phenomenon peculiar to this website. I know many Russian Orthodox who love the EP, worship and commune in Greek Churches and do not appear to have a negative view of the EP .
It's easy for everyone to hide behind the anonymity of the Internet and say what they want. This day and age of the internet and information overload has lead to confusion amongst a lot of people.
Also, for some reason (from what I have noticed) people have a tendency to believe implicitly whatever is published on the internet as the "truth". So everything gets blown out of proportion and misconstrued or worse still, misrepresented in order to satisfy a particular agenda. I find this to be particularly true of some groups who perceive themselves to be "ultra" Orthodox and go beyond the normal zealousness of what is expected of Orthodox people and enter into the realm of fanaticism and quite frankly....sometimes the lunatic fringe.
As far as your comment about the tone of some of the posts, all I can say is that from a personal perspective...I'll give as good as I get!
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ICXCNIKA
Starting Member
27 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 22:48:10
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| I am really surprised by all the exageration of the significance of the EP in Orthodoxy. Or the MP. Or any patriarchate for that matter. Your local bishop is your father no one else. The EP has done much for Orthodoxy over the Centuries and has produced many saints as has the MP. But it is the exaggeration that is causing the negative responses and which strains the relations of the churches. the ecumenical church of constantinople? what do you think that means? that it has no canonical boundaries? that it can interfere in the affairs of other churches? or that he is some kind of bishop of bishops? Lets stop trying to make the PC something it isn't. There will never be an Eastern Pope in any SEE. Constantinope was only raised to the position after Rome, 2nd in the Dyptiks, because it was the Capital of the Roman Empire. News Flash:There is no empire nor is it even the capital of Turkey. I saw one report that said there are now more russians living in Turkey than Greeks. If we respect each other and not try aggrandize one SEE over another than we can move forward together. Or we can continue the in fighting remain weak and ineffective and fail in our mission given to us by Christ. Let's keep the Main Thing the Main Thing. |
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grengliman
Senior Member
USA
1053 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2010 : 06:17:34
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Although I agree with most of what you say above, I still must ask, why such negativity towards the EP?
Shouldn't all Orthodox Christians respect the ones who continue the Apostolic ministry until such times as they perceive them as preaching a different Christ than the Apostles? I'm sure we are not calling the EP a heretic?
I'm shocked at how quickly some are to snap into judgement, especially towards a bishop of the Orthodox Church, that's all... |
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ICXCNIKA
Starting Member
27 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2010 : 12:00:46
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| I don't feel like I am being negative or snapping perhaps it just seems that way to you. I am concerned by claims that seem very neo-papal in nature and very questionable behavior as well as just ridiculous ( by this I a mean SILLY)little statements. Is it appropriate for any bishop to be constantly fighting with his brother bishops? Would the Apostles behave as such? He has had knock down drag out fights with Patriarch Diodorus of Jerusalem (the Mother of all Churches), Patriarch Aleksy, Archbishop Christodoulos of Athens, to name just a few all three of these men were saintly men. Then there is his insistence in leaving his canonical territory and trying to stake claims over other churches. He just sued for properties in Britain. He sued for parish properties that had NEVER been apart of the EP. He lost thank God. Then there is his very disturbing activity in the Ecumenical movement. There is unhealthy realtionship with the heretical romans and in the video the Green Patriarch he appears to get blessed by a pagan priest. You can see him bow his head. According to the Bible "ALL Foreign gods are DEMONS". There has been some benefits but at what cost? Now for the silly. Why does he never correct people when they exaggerrate his position. "He is the head of 300 million Orthodox Christians..." As my dear friend, a member of the greek clergy, says better make that 299,999,999 cause don't count me. He is not the leader of anyone out side his diocese or patriarchate period. Then their is the theological issue of claiming to be the Head of the Church. The doctrine of the Church is that our Head is Jesus Christ not the Patriarch of Constantinople. Now please don't view this as my railing against the EP you asked, I answered honestly. |
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grengliman
Senior Member
USA
1053 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2010 : 12:26:06
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I must now drop out of this discussion.
This type of thing happened recently with the Antiochian bishops in America--questioning the Orthodoxy and integrity of a hierarch.
Perhaps there are some who this is a possibility for; me I must humbly obey. I just can't be involved, sorry.
If we wish to bring this thread back to the situation in America, I may participate.
Warmest regards as we finish up the Lenten season, in anticipation of the empty tomb of our Lord. |
Edited by - grengliman on 03/09/2010 12:39:35 |
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macacic
Moderator
USA
1968 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2010 : 12:45:10
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quote:
Originally posted by ICXCNIKA
Is it appropriate for any bishop to be constantly fighting with his brother bishops?
No, they should be able to deck them with one punch.
Just like Saint Nicholas of Myra did with Arius.  |
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parascheva1014
Moderator
USA
1273 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2010 : 14:22:25
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| grengliman is correct. We should keep to the topic and avoid turning this into a complain about your hierach jerry springer session. We are not middle school girls. Like it or not the problem has to be solved in the US at some point and this discussion so far has been remarkably not centered on solutions. |
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ICXCNIKA
Starting Member
27 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2010 : 14:42:30
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Parascheva,
I am not sure to whom you are referring. I was asked a question i responded. If the post is about Unity we need to return to Ligoniers and its statements. |
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sue
New Member
United Kingdom
72 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2010 : 02:40:52
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quote:
He just sued for properties in Britain. He sued for parish properties that had NEVER been apart of the EP. He lost thank God.
I must correct this assertion. The recent problems in Britain did not involve the Ecumenical Patriarch. I will not comment on the last part of that statement except to say that those of us involved in the whole affair found it extremely upsetting and we are not yet really healed from it.
Sue |
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Yiorgos75
Junior Member
Australia
461 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2010 : 05:12:02
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quote:
Originally posted by ICXCNIKA
He has had knock down drag out fights with Patriarch Diodorus of Jerusalem (the Mother of all Churches), Patriarch Aleksy, Archbishop Christodoulos of Athens, to name just a few all three of these men were saintly men.
Are we talking about the same Patriarch Diodorus? If you call him saintly, then you obviosuly know next to nothing about the politics of the Patriarchate of Jerusalem. That is all I am going to say about that topic without airing dirty laundry and scandalising the readers of this Forum.
quote:
Then there is his insistence in leaving his canonical territory and trying to stake claims over other churches.
A gross exaggeration. If someone refers a dispute to the EP for resolution and seeks to accept the decision made thereafter, then there is nothing anti-canonical with this. This occurred numerous times in the ancient Church when disagreements were referred to Rome for resolution. Not because Rome was the "master of all" but because the decision was to be respected as coming from an enlightened scholar. Also, the EP never acts beyond his synodical powers. Decisions are made synodically with at least 12 other bishops. He is not the lone ranger.
The EP has been active in the ex-Soviet bloc but this was only to correct the anti-canonical status and mess that had been left behind after 80 years of communism and soviet influence within the Russian Patriarchate. Was it wrong that he re-opened the Patriarchate of George or re-instituted the autocephaly of the Polish Orthodox Church, or that he even granted autocephaly to the Czech Church in the face of a particularly nasty schism?
quote:
There is unhealthy realtionship with the heretical romans and in the video the Green Patriarch he appears to get blessed by a pagan priest. You can see him bow his head. According to the Bible "ALL Foreign gods are DEMONS".
Is what we see really the fact of the matter?
quote:
Why does he never correct people when they exaggerrate his position.
Who says that? He has no power over how the editors of a 60 minutes program will ultimately edit the program for airing.
quote:
He is not the leader of anyone out side his diocese or patriarchate period. Then their is the theological issue of claiming to be the Head of the Church. The doctrine of the Church is that our Head is Jesus Christ not the Patriarch of Constantinople. Now please don't view this as my railing against the EP you asked, I answered honestly.
When, in black and white, has the EP EVER stated that he is the head of the Church? In all my life I have never head such a thing. |
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Orthodox Unity...
